Wilderness Edge Podcast
For people who are curious about communities on the edge of the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness.
Join our host, Lacey Squier, for juicy conversations with area residents and all who have a heart-home “up north.” We offer dialogue about what gives northeastern Minnesota the edge, as well as some real talk about the sometimes-sharp edges of living in remote and rural locations.
Wilderness Edge Podcast
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Host Lacey Squier and her husband, Eric Glasson, describe their recent eleven-day Boundary Waters canoe trip, featuring back country angling, lots of paddling and portaging, a moose, and an abundance of blueberries. They describe what it was like to help call in a new wildfire and witness a USFS d'Havilland beaver float plane drop off wildland firefighters in front of their campsite. All this, and more! A great listen for anyone seeking to reminisce about past trips, and anyone who is curious about what it's like to go on a "big trip" into the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness.
Ely Area Outfitters -- GET YOURSELF A GUIDE! You don't have to be an expert to have a profound Wilderness experience, you can hire a trusted local resource to guide you.
Love of Gear & Fishing in the Boundary Waters -- Previous episode of the Wilderness Edge Podcast featuring Eric Glasson
Boundary Waters Connect -- Host of the weekly educational forum called Tuesday Group, and Hello Neighbor programs and services for new and prospective Ely area residents.
I like paced myself for the five portages. I did not pace myself for an epic three-mile paddle across what felt like huge waves.
SPEAKER_02It was pretty water.
Eric GlassonAnd that west wind was hitting us like not in a good direction. That is a monster body of water. It's much bigger in person than it looks on the map.
Lacey SquierWelcome to Wilderness Edge, a podcast about life on the edge of the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness in Northeast Minnesota. In this episode, my husband and
Intro
Lacey SquierI will recap our recent 11-day Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness Canoe Trip featuring backcountry angling and a grand slam, epic sunsets, gourmy dinners on trail, lots of paddling and portaging, and an abundance of blueberries. So I'm hoping this will be reminiscent for anyone who's been on trail and especially intriguing for anyone who hasn't yet. Hello, Eric.
Eric GlassonHello.
Lacey SquierWelcome back.
Eric GlassonThank you. It hasn't been that long.
Lacey SquierNo, you actually have the claim to fame of being having been the guest on the current uh front runner of the Wilderness Edge podcast episodes. Your love of gear and fishing episode is our current most listened to episode.
Eric GlassonI think people like our weird dynamic. They like listening to us be weirdos together.
Lacey SquierYeah. Yeah. Well, and you're proud. For your your love of gear and fishing is shared. You're in good community. You're in good company.
Eric GlassonI'm glad it was received well. It was really fun to record.
Lacey SquierYeah.
Eric GlassonAnd I'm sure this one will be too.
Lacey SquierAnd we got Brett here with a hot mic.
SPEAKER_08Hello. Welcome to both of you. Welcome back from the wilderness.
Lacey SquierOh.
SPEAKER_08Thank you.
Lacey SquierI am so sad to have left the cocoon. That's I just kept thinking that the whole time. I just thought I was inside of this like wonderful, beautiful, euphoric, amazing cocoon.
SPEAKER_08You know, we ran into each other yesterday at an event, and uh when you told me that you'd gotten back, I was like, oh, that's what it is. Like you just you, you know, you're always sort of effervescent, but it there was just this like sense of like rejuvenation, like you were just you just seemed so refreshed.
Lacey SquierOh, thank you.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, yeah, it was pretty awesome.
Lacey SquierI had a dream actually that a a a vision, not an actual I was sleeping dream, but like my dream that I want to have realized. Would you help me, Brett? Would you just ask me? Hey Lacey, how was your trip?
SPEAKER_08Hey Lacey, how was your trip?
Lacey SquierBrett,
"Hey Lacey, how was your trip?"
Lacey Squierit was fucking fantastic.
SPEAKER_08That's what you want to hear.
Lacey SquierIt was fucking fantastic.
SPEAKER_08Nice.
Lacey SquierIt I don't know. Like we, Eric, you know, we lived here for eight years. I went on my first Boundary Waters trip with Eric and our good friend 10 years ago. We went in 2016. I have been to the Boundary Waters, but something about this trip like unlocked my ability to absorb
Something about this trip...
Lacey Squierwhat people are talking about when they revere it. Like what Eric sees when he goes there. Like, I don't know. Something about this trip really helped me see the boundary waters in a new way. And probably it's the fact that we were there for 11 days.
Eric GlassonI would say 100%. Looking back at the last two trips we took, one was what, four days over the Fourth of July time period, and it was crazy buggy and crazy hot.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
Eric GlassonAnd then the last one was our little money mini moon that we did after we got married, and I just did a bad job of trip planning and packed way too much into five days. So we were kind of just getting beat up the whole time. So the most wonderful thing about this trip is over the course of 11 days, we only stayed at five different campsites, which means we had many. There was only one campsite we stayed at for one night. I think it was two nights on Tuscarora, two nights on Little Sag, three nights on Ogish Kamuncy, two nights on Alpine, and then the last night was on Seagull. So we never the first day was tough, but we were never like pressed for time. We never felt like we had to like meet a certain itinerary. And with, I'm sure we'll talk about the fire stuff that happened before our trip, but like with the uncertainty of the fire, um, wildfire status and the closures, we didn't really have an itinerary because we didn't know what we would or wouldn't be able to do when they reopened the wilderness. We were lucky that our permit was active again, but it was such a small corner of the wilderness. We were like, How are we gonna do 11 days?
Lacey SquierAnd then I like that he says we. I of course never had any notion of what was happening.
Eric GlassonWell, as I planned this in my head, it's like, how are we going to make 11 days out of this really small area? And then whatever it was, like 36 hours before, they opened up a much bigger area and was like, oh, now we can figure out where we want to go. But yeah, they're just like not being on a timeline, not being rushed, and having as much time as possible to like chill and rest was like really our only goal for this trip.
Lacey SquierIt was such a sanctuary. Have you ever done a trip like that, Brett?
SPEAKER_08Well, I was just gonna say, I think it bears pointing out that the the campsites
"It was such a sanctuary"
SPEAKER_08that you just mentioned are not right here in our backyard entry points that you went in from the
"The campsites you mention are not right here in our backyard"
SPEAKER_08gunflint.
Lacey SquierYeah, well, and that was always and listeners who've been following Wilderness Edge will have heard me say, like, we've been planning this trip for a while, and I was really fixated on the idea for like poetic reasons and creative project reasons. I wanted us to go in on the gunflint side and paddle home. And that was the dream that I was coming into this situation with. We weren't organized enough during permit day, January 2026, to actually get a permit. So at some point this spring, Eric kept an eye and just like got the first permit that he could get on the gunflint side for us. And so prior to all the wildfire stuff and the closures, we had this plan to go up the gunflint and paddle home to Ely. And then um Yeah, and then that that became impossible because of the closures.
Eric GlassonYeah, I think there's a way we could have done it, but it would have added like a bunch of crazy lakes and a crazy portages. We couldn't have just gone straight up to knife and then took the border route back. So I I don't know at what point we decided to make it a loop. Well, we actually changed our course right in the middle of the trip because we were gonna do an out and back, and then a forest fire started south
Changing course mid-trip, liberating freedom of movement
Eric Glassonof us, so we're like, well, we might as well keep going north and loop around a seagull. We had a satellite communication device and we had a friend who was willing to pick us up. So yeah, like going into a trip and not having an itinerary and knowing we had 11 full days to kind of do whatever we wanted was very liberating. I don't do those trips very often.
SPEAKER_08And you wouldn't have had that opportunity to stay multiple nights at a number of campsites if you were going from the Gunflind all the way back to the Right.
Lacey SquierIt would have been a very different trip. And yeah, I think like because I don't identify as a wilderness traveler and I don't identify as a canoeist, and I really kind of always thought of myself as like loving living in this town, being so happy for my husband that he can do what he does. My honest frame of reference for going on this trip into the boundary waters was that phrase, quote unquote, big trip. But
My honest frame of reference for this trip was a "big trip"
Lacey Squiernormally, if I go on a big trip, like last time we went on a big trip, we went to Portugal.
SPEAKER_08Usually there's room service involved.
Lacey SquierYeah, we went to Brazil. Our first big trip we ever took together, we went to Vietnam. And actually, that was a really powerful frame of reference to bring into the boundary waters. And I'll circle back to that later because it really like shaped, like I just thought of myself as someone who likes big trips, but has a notion of what a big trip is. And now it's like my personal mission in life to take almost everyone who thinks they their big trip is going to Portugal and tell them why their big trip should be to go into the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness. And spoiler alert, the top line message
Your big trip should be in the Wilderness. Get yourself a guide.
Lacey Squieris get yourself a guide. Get yourself a guide. Why wouldn't like I'm so intrigued by my own self that I never even seriously considered doing the most quintessential tourism experience of the town where I live, the state where I live, the c I think the country where we live, right?
Eric GlassonLike yeah, it's like buying a VIP backstage past to watch your favorite band perform. It like totally elevates the experience.
Lacey SquierYeah, why wouldn't you invest in because I don't have the skills, right? Like I even am really fixated on this. Like, I don't know how to tie the paracord to give us a clothing line. I don't know how to do that. And I don't I don't really want to figure it out.
Eric GlassonI don't think you're alone.
Lacey SquierRight. So, like we have this notion in my mind, I don't know what other people are thinking, but that we have to do it Eric Glossen style, right? Spend years of your life learning the skill skills, spend years of your life working in the industry so you can afford the gear. Spend years of your life testing your skills, growing your skills, struggling through some of that. Like, no, no, no, no, no. You can just pay a guide to help you with your route, help you carry the heaviest stuff, cook your meals, set up camp.
Eric GlassonYeah.
Lacey SquierWhat?
Eric GlassonYou helped with camp setup once you kind of got into the rhythm of things, and you love to cook, so you helped me cook.
Lacey SquierBut I mean it took a while.
Eric GlassonYes, point taken.
Lacey SquierOkay, well, let's let's go back from let's go back to the beginning. So the plan was we were gonna do this gun flint to ealie thing that got changed because of the wildfires.
Let's go back to the beginning. We planned...
Lacey SquierI also love the idea that we're hosting this conversation, we're having this conversation about our trip into the boundary waters because we just did a three-part series on the wildfires. And I really am glad that listeners maybe who aren't as tapped into this region, I want you to know like the boundary waters is here, right? Like the wilderness is open for experiences, not to be insensitive to the closured, the closed entry points here that are impacting our economy and our guides. And like, yes, there's reduced access to the wilderness, but also it's still here and it will be here next year. And a lot of the travel we did was near places that had burned 10, 15, 20 years ago. So, anyways, start from the beginning. The day before we left is Eric's deep in packing mode, and I have come down with an illness.
Eric GlassonYeah, that's less than ideal. But luckily, I'd been in that situation before and I said, Don't worry about it. The hard work will push that cold right out of your system. We're not gonna delay, we're not gonna cancel this trip. You're just gonna work through it because you're tough. And you did.
Lacey SquierWell, and I loved it because for the first few days, like I actually didn't know where anything was packed. I didn't know what we had packed, I didn't know what we were eating. So for the first few days, Eric really was my guide. And you, you like, I mean, in classic Lacey fashion, day one, well, let's say in classic Eric fashion, day one, we didn't adjust our plan. We had seven portages and we made it all the way into Tuscarora Lake, and it was everything I could do to get there. I mean, I was totally a trooper and very happy to be out there. But by the time we got to our campsite on Tuscarora Lake, what did I do? Passed out.
Eric GlassonYeah, that's for those of you who want a tough route, a tough first day, holy cow. Cross Bay Lake entry point. You start out slogging through. Well, this time of year, it was a really low river. So there were a couple beaver dams we had to deal with. There were, you know, portage entries and exits were more difficult because you got more exposed rock, and you finish the day with a 255-rod portage uh that takes you halfway through, it takes you over a
You finish the day with a 255 rod portage
Eric Glassonbeaver dam that you literally have to walk across to get to the second part of the portage to do the remaining like 150 rods.
Lacey SquierUm I was in good spirits until that point.
Eric GlassonYeah, that's a lot. We we avoided a meltdown, but that was a really tough portage at the end of a really long day in which we ate, what did we have, donuts before we went in? We like grabbed donuts.
Lacey SquierWe had a proper breakfast at home. We got some world's best donuts at a gas station in Tafty, and no disrespect, but like they're not quite up to snuff of what the actual world's best donuts at in Grand Marie are.
Eric GlassonGotta get them hot and fresh in Grand Marie. It's wonderful that they've got distribution, but it is not the same.
Lacey SquierNot the same. No, so we we started, it was a beautiful day. It was wonderful. I wasn't part of the packing process. Eric didn't weigh the packs. I think it's for the best. They were heavy. Oh my gosh. And but we we paddled into like the third or fourth, second, who knows? I don't have a memory for this kind of thing. But we paddled into Snipe Blake and immediately saw a moose.
Eric GlassonYeah. I we went back and looked at the
We paddled into Snake Lake and immediately saw a moose
Eric Glassontimestamp. I think it was three hours into our 11-day trip that we saw a bull moose.
Lacey SquierYes. And I've never like that was a new one for me. I've seen moose from the car. Yeah.
Eric GlassonI've been on, if you count day trips, I've been on literally hundreds of boundary waters trips. That's the first moose I've seen in the Boundary Waters, period. Yeah. Wow. I'm the most unlucky Boundary Waters paddler that exists when it comes to moose sightings. But finally, I've seen two in Quetico. Yeah. They were both two years ago, 2024, I believe. And then yeah, this was my first in the Boundary Waters. So finally checking that box. And it was majestic.
Lacey SquierIt was so majestic. And actually the moose just stood there and hung out for a while. Like we really got like we had really good quality time observing and just being sharing space with this huge moose that Eric identified as a juvenile because its antlers were still fuzzy.
Eric GlassonWell, they're all fuzzy this time of year, but his were really narrow. Like that it wasn't a super wide rack, and he was kind of a lean creature. So I'm guessing it was a three or four-year-old, not like a big dominant male. But I don't know. Was it just hanging out on the shoreline and you paddled by? Yeah. Was standing in the water and I looked up and saw it. And luckily we were traveling forward, like in the right direction. So we stopped paddling and we just got closer and closer to it without moving and making a bunch of noise. And Lacey had the camera case up by her. So she put the zoom lens on and got some really cool shots of this moose. And yeah, he just like looked over his shoulder and stared at us for a while. And you know, as they do, because they have terrible eyesight, they look for movement, like most, you know, deer do that as well, because they're colorblind. And he just kind of stared at us like, what is that? And when we proved we were no threat, he just went about his business and we probably got a minute and a half or two of footage, and then he like very casually walked up and into the woods and disappeared.
Lacey SquierAnd considering how huge they are, like the deftness and the like the agility to just climb up a rock face was pretty wild. And we had our we had our dog with us, Wendell.
SPEAKER_08How did Wendell handle it?
Lacey SquierWendell, it you know, I think for the first half of the duration had no idea what was going on. And then there was a clear moment of like, whoo what's that?
SPEAKER_08It was a strange looking dog.
Lacey SquierBut he's a he's a well-trained, good canoe dog. He's quiet. He he didn't he did not disrupt the moment at all.
SPEAKER_06Awesome.
Lacey SquierYeah, but it was just really special. I think prior to that I had seen a beaver kind of swimming underwater. The water was so clear, it's like and then we saw swans and four signets. Wow, and it was just like a beautiful entrance. Like I love paddling a river. I love getting started like that. I'm not as I don't think the big water is very majestic for my palette. So it's like a really wonderful way to start the trip. And most of the portages were small. It just the second to last portage was like a hundred rod, and I was really like it wasn't very well trod, and there was a lot of gross into the path, and I just was carrying this really heavy pack, and I was just like, what are the people on the gunflank side doing over here? I don't think that's a very popular portage.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
Lacey SquierAnd then, like Eric said, we had that 255 router, and there was this like swamp in between, and Wendell went first and just like trotted over what we thought was a pile of mud, but it actually was a deep deep little pool of muck. And so he looked got sunk in, and Eric didn't see that, so we went through it, and then Eric got stuck up to his knees while carrying like the heaviest pack we had. It's still quite a mystery to me how you got out of that situation.
Eric GlassonI don't really remember either, but it's important not to panic. It's not quicksand. We didn't go to the bottom and get stuck for the show.
SPEAKER_08I was gonna say, but it was people have this perception that you're not gonna encounter quicksand in real life, but it sounds like you kind of did. Yeah, I kept my shoes.
Eric GlassonIt's important to tie your laces tight, otherwise, I would have never started off the 11-day trip with one of my portage shoes. Yeah, you didn't see your shoes when you're out there.
Lacey SquierBut we by the end of that, like I so we had to we had so much stuff, 11 days. We're bougie. Our menu, you'll hear about it in a second, but our menu was not casual. So we had a lot of stuff and we double portaged. Um, but my spirits and my energy stores were such that I personally did not double portage that last one. My very capable and chivalrous guide uh took over while I had a moment at the put out of the portage on a wide sandy beach on Tuscarora. And normally, like, I understand the etiquette of like not picnicking and not hanging out at portage stops, but this was like a a really big sandy beach, and so it was also 6 p.m.
Eric GlassonSo anyone coming behind us was insane and they probably wouldn't have minded. Yeah, you you needed a timeout.
Lacey SquierI needed a timeout.
Eric GlassonI'm glad I made that decision and walked back for the
Taking a time-out in the Boundary Waters
Eric Glassonlast pack because you needed a timeout. Yeah, that's a long double portage. It was like 6 30 and we hadn't eaten lunch or 5 30. Like we were both getting hangry.
Lacey SquierWe were in good spirits, like until we weren't yeah, you know.
Eric GlassonYeah, yeah. As those things go in the wilderness, all of a sudden you're just cranky and you hate everything. It's like, oh, I should probably eat or drink some water. Maybe that will help.
Lacey SquierBut I I think it's poetic, Eric, that you said like I needed a timeout because I I needed a timeout in life, and that's what this boundary waters trip was for me. Is that what it's always been like for you?
Eric GlassonYeah. Absolutely. Yeah, it's a place to escape. And as your listeners probably know, I'm an introvert, and you're not, so it's even more exaggerated with me. And yeah, I don't I don't know if it's me needing a m escape escape or me just wanting to spend every last minute of free time I have in the boundary waters because it's my passion, but maybe they can be the same thing.
Lacey SquierAnd I got to thinking about that. Like I knew going in, even in my journal entries before the trip, it's like I need a timeout. And then when we got there, that's really what it felt like. And it made me think about being a kid. There was a moment where our our dog, you know, he's a really well-behaved, sweet dog, but he also like sometimes doesn't listen to me. And I was like, he's ungovernable. And I was thinking about myself as a kid and how like when I would get in trouble, my mom would put me in a timeout, but really then I would just go to my room and like play by myself. Like I was just having a great time.
SPEAKER_08That's what you wanted to do anyway.
Lacey SquierYeah, right. And I didn't think I wanted to be alone, but it's actually really what I needed. Yeah, and that's how I felt about this is like, wow, I just need to get away. Like, I have this pattern of needing less but lashing out for more. And it was so good for me to be away from the internet for 11 days and just be like on a timeout. Like, okay, ma'am, what you have is your like you've got one book, one tarot deck, one notebook, one journal, and a couple of like printed articles. And that's what you have. Like, this is what you get to work with. This is what you yeah. Anyways, I'm going off the rails here. But we made it to Tuscarora, we had a rest day the next day. Yeah. We napped for like five hours.
Eric GlassonYeah, tell us like big rainstorm overnight. I always sleep better after a rainstorm. We woke up to like violent lightning and wind and thunder, and it was like, wow, you know, because we're delirious because we're exhausted, and it was who knows, somewhere between two and five a.m. And then you fall back asleep, and it's just like the best when the storm passes, like that feeling of release. Like, okay, tree's not gonna fall on me. We're good to go.
Lacey SquierYeah, I did have a moment of anxiety. I was like, wait, I didn't learn how to use the garment inreach. Like, what if a tree falls on us? Um, but it it was fine. I figured it out. Um tell us about our menu, Eric. What kind of what's your food style? As our guide for this trip, how
"Tell us about our menu, Eric. What's our food style?"
Lacey Squierdid you decide about food choices?
Eric GlassonWell, I've never done like a true expedition that's like three plus weeks long where you cannot have fresh food. So always, whether it's like a quick overnight or it's an 11-day trip, like I always like to have fresh food on the front end of the trip. And pretty much every trip I go on, that means like fresh steaks the first night. Um, and then bratwurst over the fire, Polishes from Zupps specifically, meat and cheese, like all of that fresh stuff we were able to throw together for the first probably five days.
Lacey SquierYou brought a salad kit.
Eric GlassonYeah. Yeah. I gotta give my buddy Eric a shout out for that. Uh, we've been bringing salad kits for the last three or four years, just like the mix the ingredients in the bag, shake it up. Um, especially like the Southwest crunchy, spicy salad kit with the tortillas. And what we've started doing is doing fish tacos with those. So, like that's the stuffing for the fish in the tortilla. Um, and of course, it's like like not the most fresh vegetables to get like a pre-made processed salad kit. But when you spend your boundary waters trips eating nothing but like meat, cheese, and carbs, and then you get a salad, it tastes like the freshest salad in the world, whether it is or not. So it's nice to get vitamins.
Lacey SquierUm, but something that augmented our menu heavily was the fact that we happened to be in the I say happen to, but we designed this, right? Um, we chose to be in the boundary waters in a blueberry season, and the timing was right. Like we were in the peak,
"We chose to be in the Boundary Waters in blueberry season"
Lacey Squierlike ripest, plumpest, most abundant world of blueberries I have ever encountered. Yeah. It was fantastic. I mean, every portage was like, yoink, yoink, yoink, yoink. Like we each had a cup of blueberries a day.
Eric GlassonThat first storm really set it off because I remember that first day we did plenty of portages, seven of them, you know, double portaging every one. And I don't remember finding more than a couple of blueberries that were worth picking. And then that big storm happened and probably dumped between an inch and two inches, and then it was just like boom, it exploded. That would have been August 3rd, overnight, the second into the third, that we had that trip. So usually last week in July, first week in August is when they peak. So they were a little late this year because of the cold spring, and that like timed it perfectly for us.
Lacey SquierIt was, yeah. So we had our big push day one, uh just like an absolute crash of a rest day, day two. Day three, we thought we were gonna have like an easy little puts over to a nearby lake, but we were
Day 3: On the Move
Lacey Squierwe were just like energetic and ready to go. We got to what we thought would be our destination by like 10 a.m. And we're like, well, why stop now? Like this isn't come we aren't compelled to stop. Let's keep going, let's push on to little saginaga. And then that ended up being like, you know, staying would have been underutilizing our energy, but pushing on maybe tapped every reserve of the resources I had. We I like paced myself for the five portages. I did not pace myself for an epic three-mile paddle across what felt like huge waves.
SPEAKER_02It was big water.
Lacey SquierEric, we had this moment of like, do we just wait it out? And I was kind of like, well, are you saying it's too dangerous to go? Or are you saying like maybe we just don't want to go? Because if like if it's a matter of danger, like let's wait. But if it's just a matter of like, are we in the mood right now? Like, let's just get it over with.
SPEAKER_08Was that the biggest water that you paddled on this trip?
Lacey SquierIt's the biggest water I've ever paddled.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, what lake was that?
Lacey SquierLittle Sag and a gon's.
Eric GlassonI so I didn't want to push you too far. Yeah. That's why I offered, like, hey, let's go back to this campsite and let's wait it out and see what happens. And if the wind doesn't improve, then we could just stay at that campsite. Um, but yeah, I didn't want to push it. I knew how hard we worked the first day, and I knew that we felt good that morning, but that we were still getting our butts.
Lacey SquierGetting to the end, yeah.
Eric GlassonProbably the sketchiest I felt was coming across Gabby, Gabby, Gabby Gichigami or whatever, however you pronounce that one.
Lacey SquierWe did that?
Eric GlassonYeah.
Lacey SquierOh, yeah.
Eric GlassonThat day that we ran into the first canoeists we saw, other than people at their campsites, when like those three groups converged on that portage heading north out of Gabby at the same time.
SPEAKER_06Yep.
Eric GlassonAnd we were the only ones. They came from the northeast, and we were the ones who came from the south, and it was like a west wind, and that lake is oriented basically west to east. And that west wind was hitting us, like not in a good direction, and that is a monster body of water. It's much bigger in person than it looks on the maps. There's like it's a basin, there's no islands, there's no peninsula, it's like a big circle, essentially, and we're just out in the middle, like trying to keep it straight and not get tippy. So I was probably more scared about Gabby than I was little SAG.
Lacey SquierWell, and for me, it's just a new all of it's pretty new. I mean, I have paddled, I have portaged, but it's not my habit, it's not my routine. But I really appreciate like I like I said, I needed a timeout. I wanted a timeout, I wanted the clarity of being removed. And it also felt really good to like empty out all of my energy. Like, Brett, you've been good about this. Your life includes a lot of physical activity by
"it felt really good to empty out all my energy"
Lacey Squieran understanding of that's what you need. I haven't really developed those habits yet, but I have a growing awareness that I need it. So it felt really good to get to use it all, to go down to empty. Um, but there it was hard, right? And so I really appreciated Eric like knows me well enough to say, like, think of it as meditating, like just one paddle stroke at a time, just one, if you're portaging, just one step at a time. If you're paddling, just one dip into the water at a time. And it was like ultimately like really cathartic.
Eric GlassonYeah. And I see that in almost every beginner that I bring out into the wilderness, and even myself when I first started wilderness travel.
"I see that in almost every beginner that I bring out into the Wilderness"
Eric GlassonLike you're you think you're halfway across the portage, and then you walk a couple more dozen rods and you're like, where's the end of this portage? Where is it? I should be here by now. And you're just like beating yourself up in your mind. So you're like physically getting your butt kicked and you're kicking your own butt. And I think it was Adam, my former coworker at Paragas, who told me just like every portage we got to, it's like, oh, about a quarter mile. Oh, about a quarter mile. Whether it was a mile and a half portage or like a 10 rod portage, what I took away from that is it doesn't matter. The portage is as long as it is, and if you stop thinking about it, it's gonna feel shorter. So that's how I treat portages and long paddles, yeah. One paddle stroke at a time or one footstep at a time, like look for mushrooms, look for berries, like make sure you're not gonna trip over anything, but don't ever think about how much you have left.
Lacey SquierHow much is left? Well, I took a different approach though. I have an activity tracking watch, which I really liked having on this trip as much as I was trying to get away from technology. The the watch was an asset because every because we were double portaging, I would check how long, I would track how long it took the first leg of the journey. And then it was always like it's this thing where you think it's so terrible, and then you look at your watch, you're like, Well, it's been seven minutes.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
Lacey SquierLike I can handle seven minutes of grueling hardship, you know? Even even the really long ones would be like 20 minutes. You're like, okay, like I can do this. Um, but it was a good mental reframe, particularly in that moment where I really had to dig deep, and you're like, just and it it got to be this like beautiful rhythm. And I would like look at my paddle and look at the wave, and I was always trying to get my paddle into the water at a particular moment in the wave, and it was very meditative. And then our campsite on Little Sagnagaw. Well, we wanted a couple different ones, so they were taken. The the third we had identified as something we were working towards was available, and there was our own little sandy beach.
Eric GlassonYeah, those are always some of the best campsites.
The hard work is worth it -- Boundary Waters beach vacation
Lacey SquierWell, and that was just I got to check that box. We had not that day, but the next day was a calmer, sunny day. We did some fishing, we had some leisure time, and then we got back in the afternoon, and I just I put my my camp chair on that edge where the sand and the water meet, so that like my my butt is elevated and dry, but my feet are wet, and I'm just lounging in the sun with a cocktail. I we did bring a little bit of whiskey and some of those like little Mio flavored tablet things, uh, sweet tea, and just like got got to scratch that itch, you know.
Eric GlassonYou got your beach vacation. I got my beach vacation owners.
Lacey SquierBut that was after, you know. I mentioned in the intro we had a grand slam because guess what did I tell you this? I caught a 40-inch pike.
Eric GlassonWhat? She
"Brett, did I tell you this? I caught..."
Eric Glassondid. No way. The second night on Tuscarora?
Lacey SquierWe were on Tuscarora, yeah.
Eric GlassonSo not the brutal night when we got there. We swam that night at the portage after having a snack, and then overnight, and then that rainstorm, and then that next night we went out fishing and we're trolling around. And I give Lacey one of my rods, and she thought she had a snag. So I started I started backing up the boat, and then I was watching the rod tip and it was moving. Yeah, like it was compressed, like it was bent over, but it was moving. She was moving the rod. Like when she moved it away, it didn't get tighter. It was the same amount of tension. I was like, hun, I think you got a fish there. And then I think that's when you started reeling hard, and then that's when the fish freaked out because my whole body realized it was hooked. And the funniest part of that whole interaction is when because we didn't know what it was, we knew it was big, but we had no idea. It was a lake trout lake that also happened to have pike on it. But we were going for lake trout and we were trolling very deep. So we I was like, Oh, this could be a really big lake trout. And when its head popped out of the water, you almost screamed.
Lacey SquierOh, no, I just literally squealed. It was embarrassing. It's genuinely embarrassing.
Eric GlassonIs that the biggest fish you've ever caught?
Lacey SquierOf course. Yeah, yeah. What?
Eric GlassonBy far. Yeah. That's impressive. That's a once-in-a-lifetime fish for many anglers like me who like spend literally thousands of hours fishing. Like some of those people never catch a 40-inch pike. It was huge. That's the pinnacle.
Lacey SquierWell, and I'm, you know, I caught it. Air quotes here, but Eric hands me the rod, the reel. It's all set up with the lures. He brings me to the place on the water where he thinks we should go. I reel it in. Yes, very proud of myself. That was challenging. And I didn't I handled it and I'm pleased. But Eric lands it. Like, there's no way I'm picking that thing out of the water. Yeah. And he's like, oh, you know, we he takes a picture with it, but it's coming out of the water and it's just still going.
SPEAKER_06You know?
Lacey SquierAnd he's like, Oh, I wish we could have gotten a picture with you holding it. I'm like, in what world was I ever gonna get my hands on that thing?
SPEAKER_08I would have loved to see a picture of you holding a fish that's almost four feet long.
SPEAKER_05Wow.
Eric GlassonWe would have done it if it was in May. I was worried about the welfare of the fish. Like there, one of the hooks kind of nicked the gill, and there was a little blood coming out. But if that wasn't the case, I would have insisted because I got that little bogey to go to shore. That boge grip thing. Like you can clamp it on its jaw, you can put the fish underwater, and you can like slowly paddle the boat to shore, leave it in the water, get the camera ready, lift it, snap a picture, and send it. So if the fish would have been in better shape and the water would have been warmer, I would have made you water would have been cooler. Yes, I would have made you do it. And I've done that before with friends. Like, oh no, we don't need a picture. It's like this is your biggest smallmouth ever, or your walleye or your pike or whatever. Like, you need a picture with this. Part of being a good guide is making sure you get those fish pictures in addition to the memories. So we would have loved to and we would have made it happen.
"Part of being a good guide is making sure you get those fish pictures"
Lacey SquierBut the context, yeah.
Eric GlassonThe fish mattered, the fish's life mattered more. Oh, cool. Congratulations. Yeah, thank you. It's exciting.
Lacey SquierYes, it was very exciting. I did discover my love of fishing on this trip. Um, but when I say that, what I mean is I love being in the front of the boat, just like journaling, reading, and taking
I love being in the front of the boat journaling, reading, and taking pictures
Lacey Squierpictures. Can you believe I almost didn't bring a camera? I was like, oh, I don't need my camera. And then for the whole trip, I took Eric's camera and was like doing photography the whole time.
Eric GlassonIt was great. Filming is exhausting on wilderness trips. So I was happy to have somebody in the bow. Yeah. Like with that moose. Like, how could I have possibly paddled the boat, positioned it, and filmed at the same time? Like it needs to be a two-person job. So that was delightful. You got a lot of good shots.
Lacey SquierBut it it took like five days, but then but then like after like my deep, deep need for just like nothingness and kind of rehabilitation, that like deep belly of timeout. Then all of a sudden it's like, oh, let's go. Yeah, like we just spent hours. Like Eric would be trolling, and but we'd I'd just be looking at the shore, looking at the rocks. We saw a family of otters, we saw a kingfisher, we saw blue jays and eagles, and like then I became obsessed with fishing, but for me, it was just like being in the boat.
Eric GlassonGetting paddled around.
Lacey SquierSo then we get then we got really fixated on blueberries and we like spent hours trying to find blueberries on little saginaga. And we did eventually, thanks to Eric's like unwavering persistence. We found a couple islands full of blueberries. Um and then from there we paddled to Ogish Kamunski, where we had to, you know, we paddled through Gabby Gichigami, you said, and there we found like a quite an intense traffic of people. And I got a little worried for a second, but then we paddled into Ogish. They were going to other places, right? You have this moment where we're like, oh my gosh, we're all fighting for the same thing. No, they everyone's on their own journey. But we saw a guy fishing as we paddled into Ogish and well, actually backtracking on that journey. We portaged and paddled through Agamuk.
Eric GlassonIf we're pronouncing that correctly, A-G-A-M-O-O-K-Tuller.
Lacey SquierLike. And when we got on out of the portage between Agamook and Mueller, it was like, do you smell that? I'm like, yeah. Like unmistakable fire.
SPEAKER_08Fire smoke. Yeah.
Lacey SquierAnd we just, we
"Eric was like, Do you smell that?"
Lacey Squierjust both were like, hmm, little knife, fire, smell is wafting. Boop, booop, boop, boop. Just like went about our life, never thought about it again. Go into Ogish, see a guy fishing, wave, say hello, just pleasantries, you know, you unavoidable, like really close to each other. We find our campsite, which was an amazing island site that I am obsessed with. And it was so much there was like a sunrise spot and a sunset spot, and uh, it was just amazing. But we're at the sunset spot, Eric's fishing from shore, I'm just hanging out, and the guy comes back and he's like, Do you have a sat phone? Well, he recognized Eric as being Eric from Farwater. Nice, knew that that maybe we would have a sat phone, and said he had gone for whatever reason, done the portage to Mueller, like recreationally, and saw a fire.
Eric GlassonOh boy. Like all the way back across the lake on the portage that we took into Mueller, that in that direction was going to Agamook. So he was looking across Mueller, which fortunately was a small lake, so he could see across. And yeah, he said he saw smoke first and then he eventually saw some flames. So it was from it was in the direction that you had just come from.
Lacey SquierCorrect. Really? Like we were right by it.
Eric GlassonWow.
Lacey SquierBut we didn't know.
Eric GlassonYeah. Turns out it was like right next to the portage, like it was burning right next to us. And that's when we smelled the smoke. And we're like, oh, it's a little knife
"Turns out it was burning right next to us"
Eric Glassonfire, which is two, three miles north of us. Didn't think anything of it, and then the smell went away right away. That should have been our first, you know, hint.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, there was no smoke in the sky.
Eric GlassonBut yeah, there was no smoke. We didn't notice it. It was bright day, it was somewhat windy, so you'd think it would have kicked up, but yeah, it wasn't until that night that he like alerted us, and I was like, I don't even know who to message. What do I do? Yes, I have a Garmin, but what do I do? And he's like, Oh, I got a friend who works at the Seagull base for the Forest Service. Like, here's his number, here's his name. And I spent that night probably, I think I was texting with him via the Garmin at like 9 15 to about 10 o'clock because he had a couple questions and we went back and forth, and the thing's clumsy. It takes forever to send a message. Um and then sure enough, the next morning, helicopter at like maybe 9 a.m. flies over us after flying over the fire, does a couple of circles, leaves, and then an hour later, a beaver does the same thing, circles around.
Lacey SquierAnd then probably later in the afternoon. It took a while.
Eric GlassonYeah. Do you want to tell the the next part of the story?
Lacey SquierWell, I was swimming and we see a beaver just like circling really near us, and I waved at it because I'm a doofus, and I was like, hey guys. Um, and then I get out of the water and I come, they circle back and land in front of our campsite.
SPEAKER_06Really?
Lacey SquierYes.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
Lacey SquierAnd drop off two firefighters in a canoe.
That time a USFS beaver plane landed in front of our campsite
SPEAKER_06In a canoe.
Lacey SquierThey in order to take back off. So we I should I say they land in front of our campsite, but I mean I'm speaking slightly rhetorically, but now I want to be very literal. In order to take off again, they had to go into the little bay in front of our campsite and literally turn around. Like for a moment, the seaplane is just like facing me as if it's gonna like get at, you know. I'm like, oh my god, what's going on? And then it turns, you know, then it completes its rotation and uses that as the runway. Wow. So we're like sitting there in our campsite, and its jet is like, you know, spraying water. It was just like, and they came back and did it again because it dropped off four firefighters and two canoes.
SPEAKER_08Wow.
Lacey SquierAnd I did feel like, you know, I used to read a book series called Dear America. It's like for like middle grade readers, and it's just like young women who keep a journal
"I used to read a book series called Dear America ... that's what I feel like right now"
Lacey Squierwho just happen to be living in interesting times. And I was like, that's what I feel like right now. Like we're just in the wilderness, and you know, wildfire is a part of the landscape. And it, you know, it didn't scare us that the Mueller fire was there. We, you know, it's a part of the landscape, and the Forest Service just, like I said, dropped the firefighters off in front of us, and they just they were gonna paddle by without saying anything. And we were like so near to each other, just making absolute eye contact. And I can't help myself. I'm like, what's up?
SPEAKER_08You know, like they're just trying to be all respectful, like, let's just be quiet and go about our job.
Lacey SquierWe and but for a moment, we were like, are we gonna get told to leave?
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
Lacey SquierAre we about to be not evacuated like they're gonna carry us out, but they're gonna tell us, hey guys, you have to end your trip now. So when they started paddling toward us, we're like, oh gosh, oh gosh, oh gosh. And then they were just gonna go on by, you know, but they weren't very generous with their information, but they did say there was a little fire on Mueller, and that's what they were there for. And we don't know where they went or what they did or how they did it, but it was just a very fascinating thing to be in that place, that spot of the wilderness at that time.
Eric GlassonYeah, and how lucky with the way conditions were that that guy, and I do this when I'm on solo trips, just walk the portage because I'm a mushroom forager and I want to see the next lake over, even I'm not gonna paddle on it. So, how fortunate were we that he recognized me and knew that I bring electronics on these trips and he walked the portage and like we had the ability to reach out to the Forest Service because we were very remote at that point. That was day six, I believe, when we got to Ogish. So who knows what would have happened with that fire if like all of those things hadn't lined up. So we can also pat ourselves on the back a little bit for helping the Forest Service complete their job because they put it out like right away.
Lacey SquierYeah, and shout out to Nick, you know, who was the person who really scouted it and made those communications happen.
SPEAKER_08That's a very summer 2026 kind of story.
Lacey SquierYeah.
SPEAKER_08And the fact that the beaver like turned around right in front of your camps. I mean, it was just the fact that it landed right in front of you and became turned around by you.
Lacey SquierWe and that's like, you know, and the rehabilitation of human attention and being away sort of from your your devices. Like we really were like that was our whole day's worth of entertainment. Like the the initial helicopter, the follow-up
Beaver Plane in the BW: A whole day's worth of entertainment
Lacey Squierbeaver scouting it out, the two beaver trips dropping off the Forest Service employees, and then like just tracking where those people went. Like that was our whole day. That was like better than reality TV, you know.
SPEAKER_08And Eric, as many times as you've been in the wilderness, have you ever had that close of an encounter with any kind of like mechanized travel?
Eric GlassonNo, I've seen probably the coolest thing that we experienced actually happened last year. It was not as close, but um, we actually bumped into a couple of DNR guys, and one of them was from Ely. Is it Trent? Is that his name?
SPEAKER_05I don't know.
Eric GlassonAnyway, he works for the DNR. I should know his name. We talk quite frequently about fishing, but we were on Tacuckmuk Lake, which just Burned. It's way up uh south of Lac LaCroix in that big like by fat and gun. And anyway, um, we were there and we saw this plane land, and you know, this guy was in this canoe that said DNR on it. And I was like, Oh, I wonder if these guys are doing lake surveys. And he's like, Is that Eric? And then we paddled over each other to each other and talked. And uh he's like, Yeah, we're here for a day and a half. We're letting the notes, the nets soak, and then we're gonna do our fish report, and then we're gonna take off. And then we were on the next lake over when they took off and flew over us. And I've had however many scout planes after a thunderstorm, like scouting for fires, but I don't think I've ever had certainly not within like 50 yards of us, a big beaver float plane. Like it's cool when you see them in the air, and it's like, oh, that's neat. You see them fly by and you wave at them, yep, like Lacey the Doofus. But but no, almost never are you like in that close proximity. So it was cool.
Lacey SquierWell, and like you mentioned, Brett, like it is like we had this, you know, Seagull is well, we didn't enter through Seagull, right? We were gonna exit through Seagull, but yeah, where we had been to that point was a non-motorized section of the wilderness. And so kind of five, you know, if that's day six, we've got five days of like not having motors in our lives. And the the beaver plane is especially spectacular when your palate has been cleansed of that kind of machinery, yeah, for sure. Um, it was really hard to say goodbye to that campsite because it was really beautiful and I had become attached to it. And even before we went, I had told Eric, like, I think I might be a base camp person, you know, like I don't know. This seems like a lot of movement. And I have to say, like, absolutely, Eric, you were right. And like I can maybe one of the biggest takeaways is realizing, like, we talk about the wilderness, the Boundary Waters Canoe area wilderness as the most visited wilderness in the United States. And and now I I feel like we need to say, like, no, it's one of like five places in the world where you can move as autonomously
"It's one of like 5 places in the world where you have this much freedom of movement"
Lacey Squieras this for this much distance, like the vastness of it, and the fact that we didn't have an itinerary. Our point-to-point freedom was infinite, not literally infinite, there were closures, but like the amount of ability we had to move at any point, and like that's what's unique, right? Because you can go to Yosemite and Zion and all these other places, but you're like on a track.
Eric GlassonYeah, that was actually shocking to me the first time me and a buddy went to Zion and we just stopped in at the office. Um, and we were like, hey, are there any backcountry permits available? We'd like to do some backpacking. We don't care where we got two days. And we had to reserve, like, there was only one permit per campsite, and it was a designated campsite. You couldn't camp anywhere. So, like, if that one permit wouldn't have been available, we wouldn't have even been able to hike on that trail. It was like, this is the trail you're hiking on, this is the campsite you're staying at, this is where you have to enter. And we did an out and back, so you're you know, exiting at the same place you entered, and that was just like foreign to me. Like, what? We can't just go and see if it's available. Yeah, like, nope, you have to reserve it. And we just got lucky it was available. But I had had my experiences with the boundary waters and that autonomy, like like we did on this trip. Like, oh no, there's a fire behind us. We don't want to go back that way. Let's keep going north and go out seagull. Like, you can't do that in backcountry sites and national parks.
Lacey SquierYes, and so I I was like looking into it, like, where else in the world is there this much land? Like, it's not even just like first of all, it's about the boats, it's about the water, but then it's about the freedom of movement. And even like I said, my frame of reference for a quote unquote big trip is Portugal, Brazil, Vietnam, Hong Kong. And like we would one of the most fun things we did, we were just trolling around, checking out the shore, just seeing what there was to see. And if there was a campsite, we'd just go to it. Like, hey, no one's here, let's just see it. Like, you don't get to do that when you're traveling in a traditional sense, like, hey, you got a hotel here. Can we just like see what it's like?
SPEAKER_08Check out one of the rooms.
Lacey SquierYeah, what's the room like, you know? And we there's some really magical campsites, and there's some really crappy ones. And like just this, like at any given moment, you can go anywhere. It's not like illegal to be off trail. You just still have to execute the leave no trace conduct, right? Like you can, it's I one of the book I brought was gifted to me um by Betsy Flayton, and she's a member of the American Association of University Women. She's been taking the intro to humanities classes. I've been teaching at the folk school, and she gave me this book called Homoludens, and it's uh the study of the play element in culture, and it's about play, and that's the book I brought with me, and so I framed the whole experience as like us being in a playground, yeah, and like
Play without playing pretend (better than a zoo!)
Lacey Squierus just being playful, and then I had this moment where I saw that family of otters, and I'm like, it's like we're at a zoo. And it's like, no, you're in the real world, it's better than a zoo, better than a zoo, and that's the phrase I keep coming back to. It's play without playing pretend. Yeah, it was just so magical. I'm obsessed.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, there's nobody like behind the scenes going, all right, let the moose out. Let the moose out. All right, they're about to come around the bend, let that family of otters out.
Lacey SquierYeah, and you have to wait for it. Yeah, you know. Um, let's see, it was hard to leave Ogishkam on see, but then we made it to Alpine. Then I learned I used to have um Eric sometimes we I'm trying to be delicate with my words, but we're you know, we're approaching this portage. There's a group ahead of us, there's a group behind us, there's a ton of people. And he goes, I hate people.
On seeing other people in the Wilderness
Lacey SquierAnd that's always true, can't be the only one.
SPEAKER_07True introvert words. Yes. Why are there anyone else in this in the world here right now?
Lacey SquierRight. And for me, it's like it's fine, other humans is it other humans exist. We share this wilderness, we share this sanctuary. Um but it is true, as we got closer to Seagull and as we got closer to the edge of the wilderness, like when we were on Alpine Lake, like, oh, all of a sudden, like you can hear other people. And they're there's just the other, we really felt secluded in the other places we were. And then that was less of the case as we got closer to the exit. And then actually for the first time when we scoped out our campsite on Siegel, which was a lovely, we were very excited about it. Um, I remember backtracking a few days earlier. I don't know what campsite, but Eric sort of made a casual reference to like, well, this is a good one. We've got, you know, a flat spot for our tent pad, a good view at the cooking station, and you know, the latrine's not full. And I just like thought that was a joke. And then we got to our campsite in Siegel, and it's like, oh, the latrines fill. I didn't know that. And so now I have a lot more um empathy and understanding for what you mean when you say that you like going into the wilderness, you like going through those tough pad portages, you like going into Quedeco because the population density of other people is is quite significantly less.
Eric GlassonYeah, it's a different experience. And that's something I ran into a lot when I worked at Paragas. People would ask, like, what's the average amount of time I should go on a trip? And I would always say, well, the average amount of time people do is about three and a half days, three nights, four days. But what I think you should do is shoot for
People commonly go in for 3-4 days, but I think you should shoot for 7-10 days
Eric Glassonseven to ten, because that's the real wilderness experience. You have the ability to have rest days, you have the ability to have really good push days to cover miles, and you get deeper in the wilderness. Because no offense to those border lakes like Seagull. We had a great time on Seagull. Um, but the border lakes like Seagull or Snowbank or Moose fall on our side of the wilderness. It's just a different experience. The campsites are heavily used, the fishing generally isn't quite as good because there's more fishing pressure, which of course is important to me. Like firewood is more picked over, so on and so forth. There's like a million reasons that don't even have to do with like seeing and hearing other people. But yeah, it is truly a different experience base camping and staying close to the entry point and like doing a quote real trip like we did, where you cover many lakes, many miles, and stay at many different campsites.
SPEAKER_08What is the like how many travel days initially would you say on average it would take to get to a place where you feel like you're really out there and you're not seeing other people and you feel like you're the only one in like miles and miles.
Eric GlassonWell, if I'm answering for myself and my own speed of travel, whether that's solo or with one of my other, you know, advanced paddling partners, it's sometimes half a day. Okay.
Lacey SquierLike literally just Well, we got to Tuscarora in a day, and I am an entry-level person.
Eric GlassonYeah.
Lacey SquierMaybe I'm intermediate because we've gone before.
Eric GlassonWe did see two other groups on Tuscarora and maybe one other passing through, but that was not an issue. So for most people, it'll be an entire day, like an entire day of travel, roughly six to eight miles, um, you know, six to eight hours, if not more. Um, but if you get your single portaging down, if you're not messing around at portages like with loose items, if you just like got packs, fishing rods, paddles, uh, and a boat, and you just go and you don't waste time, like you can easily get that six to eight to ten miles deep. And it depends on where you're going, of course. Like if Stewart River, for example, starts out with a mile and a half portage, all you really have to do is that mile and a half portage and you don't see anyone because it's one entry point, one permit per day. Um, and unless somebody's breaking the rules or doing a day trip, you literally won't see someone unless they're coming out the opposite way. So it depends a lot on the entry point, but yeah, like with the way trips have shifted and they've shortened in length over the last 15, 20 years or so, like sometimes only a half day to get deep enough where you really have the crowds thinning out.
Lacey SquierI have two more points I want to make. One is everyone talks about well, I did I am in love with the trees, and I think that's something that made this trip so special for me was years of living here, years of
What's to love? The trees! The water! THE ROCKS!! (Sea Gull Palisades)
Lacey Squierattending Tuesday group, and just sort of like being, you know, like the education about the ecosystem is in the water, and I did pick it up through osmosis. But so like I was obsessed with the trees, it was very fun to look at them, but I'm like, you know what's really cool about the wilderness? The rocks. Yeah, the rocks are what's up, yeah. The rocks are what's up, and so that was partly why I don't know what your math was in your head, Eric, but I was like halfway through the trip taking a hundred pictures of Canadian Shield, and we were thinking about changing our route, and Eric's like, we should go through Seagull and the Palisades, yeah. And that was really stunning, and I just think like it's obvious to be compelled by the water, it's obvious to be compelled by the flora and the fauna, but like the geology.
SPEAKER_08Say more about the Palisades for someone who's never been on Seagull.
Lacey SquierWell, it's really just a it's we were clocking all the fascinating rock faces, and we were clocking the big ones, like, oh, look at that, look at the west, look at the north. Or the way we did it in our boat, Eric would be like, look at three o'clock, and then I'd immediately look at five o'clock because I don't know, right? You know, like no, your other left. What time is it? Um but the the Palisades is just a rock formation, you know, and I'm not a spatial reasoning person, but it just felt like three times as big as anything else we'd seen anywhere. And but it still has a really healthy forest of trees on top of it. And it it just is it's flanked by a really beautiful part of the forest. And so there's just there's a there's a trail, I guess some people can kind of climb up it if you take a trail. We didn't bother to do that, but just even though we were gonna leave on day 11, on day 10, we paddled leisurely over to that spot just to check it out because I really wanted to. So it's just a stunning piece of Canadian Shield Ledge Rock that is massive in scale, has a lot of different color patterns, a lot of different characteristics to it that make it special to gaze upon.
Eric GlassonEspecially the sunburst lichen. I don't know what geologic mechanism creates a palisade. And I don't even know what the definition of palisade is, but the way that I view it in my head is like a vertical wall that shoots straight down into the water and continues. This is not like, for those who've seen Warrior Hill, it's a hill. It's like a hill that slowly slopes into the water. This is like a sheer 100 plus foot cliff that's got black rock, gray rock, that pinkish rock. Like I should learn more about geology because those are all different rocks. But anyway, sunburst, lichen, like you can paddle within a foot of the rock wall because it's not like shallow next to it. It's deep, it goes straight down. So you can like really give yourself perspective and paddle right next to it and look up and it blocks the sun. This particular one didn't because the sun was pointing on the wall for the time of day we were there. Um, but yeah, there's just, I mean, it's sheer size and how vertical it is. Like if you were an insane person, you could definitely cliff jump off of this thing like straight down into really deep water.
Lacey SquierWell, and like my way of the photography that I was doing is pretty abstract. Like I got really interested in the treetops and the shapes and like the sun reflecting on the water. And I I was doing some abstract photography, and this is just like lacy brain for you, but we passed a portion of the Palisades and like it honestly looked like a Pablo Picasso painting called the Ladies of Avignon. Like I like looked at that and was like, or there were even places where it looked like a profile of a human face. Like they're just if you give yourself permission, like I loved being in the Boundary Waters because I've never spent that much time zoomed out and just like
"It's very fun to get into the macro lens and see what you can see"
Lacey Squierexperiencing the expanse of the sky for hours and hours on end. But conversely, it was very fun to get into the macro lens and just like see what you could see inside of these like sort of Rorschach snapshots of um the natural world. And that was so fun. Like it was a playground of aesthetic stimuli. It was amazing. I'm obsessed, you guys.
Eric GlassonYeah, you're right. The rocks are underrated.
Lacey SquierThe rocks are underrated. And I have a journal entry where I'm like, I need to talk to a historian, I need to talk to an ecologist, I need to talk to an ecological historian, I need to talk to a geologist. Are they all the same thing? Like, I need to talk to an ornithologist. I have so many questions. So it's really only the beginning.
SPEAKER_08It all just sounds very meditative. Like you find, and I I was thinking when you were talking about the sort of uh marathon portaging on the first day and
Hallelujah!: "Finding this flow state where you're just watching your footsteps"
SPEAKER_08being like completely physically exhausted. Um, I remember listening to um this endurance athlete Colin O'Brady years ago, who did this unsupported um ski/slash walk across Antarctica. And he talked about finding this flow state where you're just watching your footsteps and you're just watching those couple feet in front of you, and your mind just goes blank and you're just completely fully present in your body doing these motions. And it sounds like you sort of hit that on the first day and then sort of just like rode that wave through the rest of the trip.
Lacey SquierI felt like I was on a sort of like mental elimination diet where I cleansed everything out, I emptied myself, and then I got to spend the next you know few days of being in the cocoon of the wilderness just slowly bringing back one little thing at a time. And it was like, yeah, my journal entries are just loaded with language like sanctuary. And I the amount of times I wrote the word hallelujah, it just was totally meditative, like you're saying. And it was like the cleansing was beautiful and then bringing back slowly because I am still me. I have a very active brain, so I'm I'm I'm dabbling between journaling, reading, taking pictures, listening to music, taking it all in. That's still five things at once. And even that is like one eighth as much as my brain is trying to do in this environment right now, you know. So my my top line message is for people like if you have ever thought that you might want to go into the wilderness,
Key Takeaway: Get a guide and go! If you can't afford a guide, date one :)
Lacey Squierlike do it, do it as soon as possible and get a guide. And my secondary message is if you can't afford a guide, start date, start dating someone who lives in Ely.
Eric GlassonWe need you singles. Come on. I hear there are singles around here.
Lacey SquierThere, I journaled that I'm like, there are guides of every gender and every sexual orientation.
SPEAKER_08True story.
Lacey SquierThere are people who have the skills that you would need who would love to um guide you into the wilderness. Is that right, Eric? What was it like being married to me and my guide?
Eric GlassonIt's great. Like, this is my greatest passion. Why wouldn't I enjoy
"What was it like, being married to me and my guide?"
Eric Glassonsharing it? And I told you this after the trip, but like the best part of the trip for me was like watching you have those eye-opening experiences that I've always had with the wilderness. And like our honeymoon trip was fun, but it it wasn't what I wanted you to experience out of the wilderness. Like the first time we went, that fourth of July trip was fun, but it was also like bug onslaught and really hot. Like this trip, it helped that the weather was unbelievable. We haven't even talked about that. But this trip, I truly saw the joy that I have in every trip that I take, like reflected in you, or you find that your version of that joy. Like when you say, you know, how many times did you write the word hallelujah? Like those are my trips. Like what's going through my brain is, oh my gosh, how cool is that? Oh my gosh, how cool is that? Like, whether it's rocks or a giant fish I caught, or watching otters fool around, or northern lights, or stars, or whatever, like everything. Just every time I go, I feel like a little kid who's learning that thing for the first time and experiencing it for the first time. So it was like really impactful to like finally see that click for you and finally have you like have that emotional spiritual connection to the wilderness that I've had for so long. So that was awesome.
Lacey SquierI think it took me a long time to develop a palette for quiet and silence. Like, I think when we went for our mini moon
It took me a long time to develop a palate for quite and silence
Lacey Squiertrip, and then again when we went to I'm a lake in 2021, like I still had this like need to fill the silence and this need to be in conversation. And like you have been a person in my life who's really gifted me comfort in silence, and so it was really special, I think, that we were in the boundary waters together because you're my safest person to be quiet around because you're the person that taught me how to do that, and yeah, I don't think our other trips were as successful as this one, in part because I didn't have the palate for the quiet of the wilderness, and I didn't have the thirst for the disconnection from mediated technology. So the combination of me being able to like handle the quiet and want that kind of disconnection made me so ready for this trip in ways like no amount of you being my guide could ever make happen for me. That had to happen on my own timeline, which is again why I want anyone who's ever thought about the boundary waters to like go now. Cause even with my own interest level, it's taken me 10 years to get here. Though I've never, I haven't tried as much as you've tried, right? I've I've dabbled and you've been committed. So I think we could talk about this forever, but I we should probably stop. Is there any final? Do you think there's anything missing from the conversation right now, Eric, or Brett for that matter, I guess?
Eric GlassonWell, I'd like to tie up the last thing you said, and you know, being quiet, allowing things to be quiet. Like you're really just stepping aside and letting nature be loud. Like that's you know, that's why you get annoyed at other people who are like, we ran in this group of guys, we got to the campsite on Alpine, and this group of guys is out fishing, and they're like in the same spot for a really long time. So I'm like, oh, that must be a good fishing spot. Maybe I'll go fish it after they're done. Anyway, we were watching this this group of dudes. And they were loud and they had their shirts off and they were just bros. And we dubbed them the bro tilla because that night they came back and floated together at the same spot. And then the next day they came back and floated. Anyway, I thought Brotilla was funny. So I thought I'd mention that. But the point, the point is, like, that's why I get so red hot mad about people being loud or people being inconsiderate in the wilderness. Like, I am here to listen to the wilderness. I'm not the experience. Like, I am here to let the wilderness be the experience and like
"I am here to listen to the Wilderness"
Eric Glassonstep aside. You know, you're not in a zoo, like you're in an ecosystem that exists, whether you're there or not, to like shut up and listen.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_08That feels like such an amazing space to really rewire your brain from just being in the sort of technological world that we live in, you know, in most of our daily lives. Like you can really like to get away from that and to be in that space of nature and the water, and just the sound of the wind through trees and the sound of the birds. And um, it's you're really rewiring your brain and just and and sort of recentering yourself, which
Re-Writing Your Brain -- Not a vacation destination, but a psychological necessity
SPEAKER_08um yeah, which explains to to play off the cocoon metaphor, like you seem like a butterfly that had brand new wings yesterday. Um it was pretty cool to see.
Lacey SquierYeah, yeah. It was it's not a a vacation destination, it's a psychological necessity. Right. This access that we have to this really vast landscape, and the vastness is the point. The the ability and the freedom to travel within that jurisdiction is the point, and the the quiet is the point. And it really, yeah, like I emptied my cup and then I filled it back up with only the best of the stuff, you know. Nice, and it's all like it's all possible because I had a guide. I I don't know why I had written off the idea of a guide, you know, had this like pull yourself up by your bootstraps, self-sufficiency, camping. You know, I went camping when I was a kid, therefore I'm equipped to go camping.
SPEAKER_08Like what it would have made my first solo trip into the boundary waters a completely different experience because it was a disaster.
Lacey SquierI didn't know what I was doing, and you can even do jump starts, right? You don't have to have a guide the whole time. But so I I have goals for the now, I you know, I want to talk to someone who guides professionally and kind of get a feel for like what's the profile of a guest? Like, because I bet it's massive, right? You have so many different personalities and people who are going for so many different reasons. But I guess suffice it to say, I'm a whole new person. I've been reborn and I'm now obsessed with the boundary waters. Thank you, Eric.
Eric GlassonSo cool. You're welcome. So happy to share this gem of a wilderness area that we have with anyone who's interested in it. Well, thank you both for sharing the story.
Lacey SquierYeah, sounds incredible. Thank you for listening.
SPEAKER_08Absolutely.
Lacey SquierThank you, listeners, for listening. It's so wonderful to have you on this journey with us. Don't forget that you're welcome to leave us a
Outtro
Lacey Squiervoice message by the fan mail link in the show notes. Um, if you do appreciate the content, please let us know by giving this show a five-star review wherever you listen, or um sharing a link of this episode with a friend and encouraging them to listen. Tell them what you thought they might like about it. Um, and just be advised that the Wilderness Edge podcast is produced by Brett Ross of Boreal Roots Media and it features music by Nick Allen. It's brought to you by Boundary Waters Connect, which is the economic and community development project of Northeastern Minnesotans for Wilderness. And you can learn more by visiting Boundary WatersConnect.org. See you next time.
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